An ulama' in Europe (Holland and Belgium) named Abu Imran had just declared his new organization, the Shariah4Holland. After the declaration, another ulama' (from the camp of Salafy Europe) named Jneid Fawaz in Den Haag commented that Abu Imran and his organizations, Shariah4Belgium and Shariah4Holland, should be arrested.
Hearing that, Abu Imran then called Fawaz in order to conduct a tabayyun (getting clarification), and tried to get him understand his point of view. Throughout the half-hour conversation (via telephone), Fawaz, like the "Salafy" people in general, was pretty insistent that Imran has no idea what Shari'ah really means, that threats and insults (i.e., calling the Queen a 'false leader') are not the way to convince people to join Islam, and that Imran should clarify that he does not support violence.
To listen to the conversations of the both men (Abu Imran vs Fawaz Jneid) please click the videos below, in Arabic, and with various quotes from the Qur'an and elsewhere interspersed throughout, to prove his points. A dialogue (Tabayyun) like this, between the supporters of Shari'ah and the Salafy is very rare, the Salafy people in general are rarely willing to be invited for a direct discussion.
These videos are posted by Abu Imran in Youtube.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
I bring here portions of the conversation:
Fawaz: Abu Imran, what you're doing is causing Muslims a lot of difficulties here in the Netherlands and in Belgium. Your actions have nothing to do with Sharia or Jihad, and your behavior is also not of Sharia or Jihad. May Allah bless you..
Imran: What violations of Shariah, Sheikh?
Fawaz: I'll tell you! Listen to me! When the Prophet, peace be upon him, wrote a letter to Kisra [ie, the Persian emperor], he said: "From Mohammed, the Messenger of Allah to Kisraa, leader of the Romans." He didn't say, "to the enemy of Allah. We're going to come and cut your head off." That is not the way we deal with people, may Allah bless you.
Imran: Did Kisra fight the Muslims and killed them in Persia?
Fawaz: And you now, does Belgium kill Muslims here in Belgium?
Imran: Yes, the Belgian army is killing our brothers in Afghanistan
Fawaz: Enough, then go to Afghanistan! May Allah facilitate it for you! Nobody's preventing you from going! Look, Abu Imran, listen, the Muslims have women and children here, you have no right to cause problems for the women. I ask you: if they harass Muslim women, can you protect them?
Later Fawaz accuses Imran of going on the wrong path:
Fawaz: Our way of thought deeds are those of the prophets. You deeds are those of Ibn Salul and Ibn Saba [considered Muslim hypocrites]. Your kind broke the Khalifate of Uthman and murdered him and Ali afterward!
Imran: We are not Kharijites [Muslim sect]
Fawaz: No, I didn't say Kharijites, but their way!
(...)
Fawaz: Why did the Prophet (PbuH) tell the oppressed in Mecca: 'Patience, family of Yassir, your reward is paradise!' and didn't choose to attack?
Imran: He had very few, weak followers
Fawaz: And you have a lot in Belgium?
Imran: He had very few, weak followers.. and Allah hadn't yet given them permission to fight! And the revelations were still ongoing
Fawaz: And when Allah revealed Jihad to him?
Imran: Did we fight Europe? No! Did we attack Europeans? No!
Fawaz: No, but you're calling for it.
Fawaz: I ask you, let me clarify my idea, and listen up, so you don't say 'the sheik mislead me'. The phone line might be tapped, I don't know. I've heard that you support the acts of Al-Qaeda, is that true?
Imran: No, never!
Fawaz: Good, than reject the..
Imran: But we believe as Muslims that we're forbidden from condemning our Muslim brothers on public TV and in the papers. The Propet (PbuH) says 'support your brother, when he does wrong, and when wrong is done to him'.
Fawaz: We're supporting you by keeping you away from the wrong path
When Fawaz starts speaking about Bush's crusade, Imran interrupts and asks, why are you speaking about the past?
Imran: Say Obama, may Allah fight him! Why don't you say that?
Fawaz: May Allah curse him, and not just fight him
Imran: Say 'Beatrix, the minister of defense, the Dutch government'.. why don't you say that?
Fawaz: (laughs) Abu Imran, you think I'm under pressure to say something, but our topic is not insulting people.
(...)
Fawaz: Don't talk to me about the Belgian army in Afghanistan. Look at the situation and the torture of religious Muslims in prisons in Muslim countries. Why do you want to start fighting against the Belgian army?
Imran: No, no, no! We're not calling for armed Jihad, to be totally clear.
Fawaz: Make that clear then! You're saying 'we're coming', the people will understand that as secret and hidden organizations who want to commit attacks and shed blood.
Imran then claims he never said that and people are misunderstanding him. When Fawaz tells him to make that clear in the media, Imran rejects the idea
Well, that's a few excerpts from the conversation of the two ulama's of "differing understandings" in Europe. To listen to the full conversation which is a half an hour in duration, please play the video above, provided you can understand Arabic.
A few conclusions we can make from the above dialogue, firstly, the voices for the implementation of Islamic Shari'ah in Europe are more loudly echoed today. Initially, the most frequently heard was the Islam4UK or Shariah4UK, later similar movements came into being in Wales, Belgium, France, Holland and a number of other places in Europe, there is even a Shariah4Bangladesh. This has to be appreciated, it means Islam is getting more fertile and the ummah are getting to know the Shari'ah more.
The second conclusion is that, apparently the voices for the implementation of the Shari'ah do not only receive obstacles from the non-Muslim community, but even from among the Muslims themselves, there are those who question. The condition does not differ much from what is happening in Indonesia. When there is a group of Muslims calling for the implementation of Islamic Shari'ah and Jihad, there is another group of Muslims who responded with a statement: "They are not establishing the shari'ah, they are khawarij, the current government is a government led by the Islamic people, so we must obey it."
The writer here is not to provide solutions to the obstacles in establishing the shari'ah, because the writer is certainly not able to provide solutions at this time. I am only following the development of Islam and the implementation of shari'ah in the world, especially in Europe, which is getting more interesting, and it turned out that the challenges faced in the establishment of the shari'ah are almost similar in different parts of the world, Wallahua'lam.
Zaky Fuad
During the past year that the writer was following the development of da'wah and Islamic movements in Western countries through the Internet, observations on the development of Islam through the Internet are not 100 percent valid but at least they illustrate the real happenings on the ground.
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